Where the heck is the money coming from?

If this were done for some Christian group, how long would we have to wait before there were 20 “SEPARATION OF !#@$# CHURCH AND STATE!” comments on this?

Awesome! Go UNC.

So where are all those crying about first amendment protections now? Will the ACLU and Americans for Separation of Church and State sue UNC? Don’t hold your breath…

I agree that this room is a good move, but I also share the sentiments of others who said that had this been an action designed to provide Christians with a prayer room, there would be incessant claims of infringement on the separation between church and state. Our founding fathers did not intend for government to be devoid of religion, but rather, for government to promote an atmosphere of pluralism and tolerance. It’s sad that the word “secular” only means “atheist” when it’s directed at one religion.

I think some of the commenters are missing the point. This isn’t a Muslim prayer room, it’s a non-denominational space that can be used by anyone – including Christians. The fact that the demand seems to be coming from Muslims makes sense, because many Muslims pray five times a day at particular times, which is not something that most Christians do. Also, there are countless church buildings all around campus – I can think of at least 7 that are less than a block away. I’m a very big believer in the separation of church and state, but this doesn’t trouble me in the least.

Okay so, how is this room hurting anyone? So what if there is now a place for Muslim prayer? I think a lot of people don’t even understand that this room is non-denominational.

It’s only non-denominational until you consider the addition of special provisions (i.e. foot bath) that are only pertinent to one system of belief.

I’m not saying it shouldn’t be there. I am saying that adherents of other religions should be given similar opportunities for worship, that we shouldn’t be afraid to call a spade a spade, and that any such rooms should be financed solely by groups that support their establishment (e.g. the Muslim prayer room should be financed by the Muslim Students Association). I have to think, though, that reactions to a prayer room targeted to Christians would be much different than it has been for the one in question.

If you think washing feet is only pertinent to Islam, then you don’t know as much about religion as you think.

That was the reason given by the Union

No, that was the reason as interpreted by the DTH. Foot washing as part of Muslim prayers may have been the inspiration for the basin, but Islam is not the only religion that practices washing of feet. breal stated that foot washing was only pertinent to one faith, and that simply isn’t true.

No, that’s the explicit reason given by Cierra Hinton, the President of CUAB.

When and where did Cierra say that? She isn’t quoted in this article.

Either way, it does not negate the fact that there are religious groups outside of Islam that practice washing of feet, and members of those groups are welcome to use the basin as well. My first post was in direct response to breal’s claim that foot washing is only pertinent to one religion.

@MP, I’m talking about the religion to which this particular instance of footwashing is targeted, which is clearly and unequivocally Islam.

Again, I’ll pose the question to you, since you seem to be more interested in semantic arguments: what’s wrong with allowing all groups to do this, and requiring that they fund their room independently from the University? This game of trying to hide anti-conservative, anti-Judeochristian sentiment behind a thin facade of “religious equality” is getting tiresome. Either accept that all groups should be able to establish prayer rooms, or deny any the right to establish prayer rooms. However, there is no room for selective discrimination in the state’s approach to integrating people of different faiths into the larger umbrella of society.

Serious question: Has there ever been a push by a Christian or Jewish group for a dedicated prayer room in the Union in the last twenty or so years? It’s one thing for the Union to actively deny these groups their space, but it’s another if this Muslim group was the first to request such accommodations. Furthermore, foot bath aside, I don’t see why this room doesn’t represent more of a compromise between all religious people as no one said the space could not be used for prayer by people of all faiths. I could imagine secular people being pretty pissed about this use of a state-funded room, but I think it’s pretty odd for Christians and Jews, who are more than welcome to use the room as well, to be bent out of shape.

They used to have Christmas trees in UNC libraries, but they were all removed for being “non-inclusive.”

I agree with Brian. It’s a meditation room (which many other state schools across the country have…hint: UNCG) which is open for everyone whether you practice a religion or not. It’s quite funny to see people trying to spur a controversy/debate out of this non-issue. I applaud Union administration for establishing a room that can be used by Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, and whatnot.

Okay…but the presence of Christmas trees in a public place does not equal the provision of a private place for religious affairs. I personally agree it’s stupid to not have Christmas trees in the Union; I just don’t see how it answers my question of whether Christians have requested a private prayer room in the Union and been denied.

This isn’t a “private place.” This is a room in a public building at a public university.

Yes, the needs of Muslim students were the inspiration for the room and the foot bath, but the fact remains that the room and all amenities in the room are open to all UNC students regardless of faith (or lack of faith). There isn’t anything wrong per se with asking each individual group to arrange and pay for their own prayer/meditation space, except that it’s incredibly impractical. Why set aside multiple rooms that will only be used for a brief period of time each day/week when a single room can serve the needs of all? Providing this room for all students is no different than allowing religious student groups use of classrooms for meetings, or performance venues for concerts. If a non-Muslim student is ever told they can’t use the room because of their religion (or lack of), then there is something to complain about.

Also, I’m not playing semantics. I was raised in a Christian denomination that still routinely practices washing of feet. There aren’t many congregations left that do so, and none in Chapel Hill that I’m aware of. When I was a student living on campus without a car, and unable to join my family for church services, I would have loved access to a facility where I could easily practice that aspect of my faith.

I’m not going to argue definitions, but if the room has a door, it’s private.

This is absolutely unbelievable.

Will there be a crucifix on the wall? Of course not… A crucifix is associated with a particular religion the same way the “foot bath” is. Anyone is free to worship it/use it if they so desire. So why should that be any different?

Read more …

The decision to stop putting up Christmas trees in the libraries was made by the library staff alone, in response to comments and complaints from library patrons. Each department gets to decide if and how they will decorate their public spaces for the holidays (or any other time of year), and there are plenty of departments across campus that display Christmas trees.

I mean, would any church ever turn anyone away for being non-Christian? Just because a room explicitly created for Muslims will allow other students to use it doesn’t mean it is appropriate.

The Christmas tree decision was ultimately confirmed by Chancellor Thorp after complaints from students and alumni.

Read more …

If the Baptist Student Center felt they needed an on-campus location to practice their faith and allowed anyone to join them in the space, then I don’t see how their use of the room would cause a problem. I mean the Muslim community on this campus expressed a need that was not being met, and the Union responded to this need by providing them with the same facilities and accommodations they would provide any other group. This action proves consistent with their dissolution of the large STV room as the Union seems to be moving towards providing spaces for a larger variety of smaller groups over providing larger spaces to a handful of student groups. If the Christians and Jews of this campus felt their needs were not being met, they should voice their concerns as loudly as the Muslims have. However, given the wide range of excellent Christian facilities surrounding the school and the very-active UNC Hillel, I don’t think either of these groups have ever faced such a need. However, I again ask if any such group as ever asked or expressed a need for similar accommodations and been denied.