Q&A on NC coal ash with Michael Jacobs

The February coal ash spill in the Dan River spurred a new N.C. law that tasked Duke Energy with forming a plan to clean up its coal ash ponds and created a Coal Ash Commission, chaired by UNC Kenan-Flagler School of Business professor Michael Jacobs. Estimates of the total cost of the cleanup, according to Duke Energy, range from $3.4 billion to $10 billion.

State & National Editor Sarah Brown spoke with Jacobs about his role on the new commission, which met for the first time in November.

THE DAILY TAR HEEL: What’s the commission’s review process going to look like?

MICHAEL JACOBS: Our first mission is to really understand the issues. You’ve got nine people that were innocently going about their lives and were all of a sudden asked to serve on this commission. Different backgrounds, different levels of education about this stuff.

Over the first 12 months, our primary mission is to get up speed on all the dangers and risks — to separate facts from fiction. It’s like any public policy debate; everybody has a spin.

It took 80 years to create the problem. It’s going to take a few years to fix it.

DTH: What could be the economic impact of the cleanup?

MJ: It’s a very large expense, and there’s multiple ways to pay for it. The Coal Ash Commission does not decide how it gets paid for — that’s not our responsibility.

There are two basic ways you can pay for it. One is ... (Duke Energy) shareholders pay for it. When you say, let the shareholders absorb all the costs, it’s important to understand that the UNC endowment owns a bunch of Duke shares. Every state employee, every teacher in the state of North Carolina has an interest in Duke shares.

The other alternative is (Duke) can build it into their rate base. Everybody who uses power is going to end up having to pay for it, in that case. Regardless of which way it’s made, people all across North Carolina are going to have to pay for it.

DTH: How will you keep the politics out of a politically appointed commission?

MJ: The beauty of the commission is that it’s politically created, but we don’t report to anybody. Therefore, we can’t be pressured by the Senate or the House or the governor’s office.

DTH: Is coal ash a safety concern to North Carolina citizens?

MJ: We don’t have the facts to know the answer to that. There’s two ways that it can be a safety concern. One is toxins can seep from these coal ash ponds down into the water supply.

There’s nothing to stop the seepage from the coal, when it gets wet, from having toxins come from the coal and go down into the water supply.

The other thing besides the seepage into the water supply are the dams. These earth dams hold the ponds, and if the dams fail and they’re right next to a river or a lake, then you could have a whole lot leak in.

DTH: Can you offer any comment on Gov. Pat McCrory’s decision to sue the legislature over the commission?

MJ: I understand that he has a legitimate issue about the separation of powers, where the legislature appoints a commission to oversee an executive branch function — which is regulating the environment.

But I’ve got to run a commission, and I’ve got legislation that has given me responsibility for doing something. I want to do it right. It complicates the issue.

We’re just going about our business unless — and until — we hear that there’s some decision on the lawsuit.