Security expert, writer debate surveillance

A former presidential adviser and a two-time Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist faced off Wednesday afternoon on surveillance and the National Security Agency.

The UNC College of Arts and Sciences hosted former National Security Adviser Thomas Donilon and acclaimed writer Barton Gellman in an event funded by the Frey Foundation.

Dee Reid, spokeswoman for the College of Arts and Sciences, said she chose the subject because of recent news surrounding surveillance and U.S. foreign policy.

“I thought that balancing national security and foreign policy in a complicated world would be a really interesting topic,” she said.

Public policy professor Hodding Carter, who moderated the debate, said that both speakers are involved in one of the major stories of our time — although they fall on opposite sides of the issue.

“The unveiling of the massive surveillance work of the NSA is something which has torn many a fabric,” Carter said.

Donilon said he briefed President Barack Obama about 800 times during his career as national security adviser.

“It was a four-and-a-half-year conversation about the world,” he said.

Gellman said as a journalist, he is interested in the power relationship between the state and its people.

“Technology and other developments have brought us to a point to which we have become more and more radically transparent to our government and data brokers whose names we don’t even know,” he said.

Gellman said he was one of three journalists to whom NSA leaker Edward Snowden shared his knowledge about NSA surveillance programs.

“I was trying to figure out if he was for real, and he was trying to figure out if he could trust me,” Gellman said. “I’ve been working through the leads in that material since.”

Donilon said people should consider whether the government is surveilling so extensively because it should in terms of the national interest — or just because it can.

He said there are still questions concerning the impact of the NSA surveillance programs on the nation.

“Will there be restrictions on U.S. companies who do business in the internet world?” he said.

Both Gellman and Donilon said they agree that the country has become much safer over the years.

“I don’t have patience for the idea that we have spent all this money and hired all these people, and all that’s been done is nothing,” Gellman said.

Reid said the Frey Foundation has allowed the University to host many important individuals, ranging from the founder of CNN to prominent political analysts.

“We’ve had David Brooks, David Gergen, Ted Turner, former heads of state, all kinds of very high-level people,” Reid said.

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